VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Episode 4 – Cix Liv

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that may revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match along with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and convey a long time of expertise from creating a number of the largest health know-how firms on this planet.

They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. We now have a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us as we speak, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.

Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you’re and your background.

Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual shortly. Once I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.

And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting laptop {hardware}, and I saved delivery it again to a spot known as Metropolis of Business. I heard that title and I used to be, like, “wow.” , like, Metropolis of Business, proper? I used to be simply so fucking uninterested in how chilly the Midwest was, and I might at all times joke with my mates that sometime I’m gonna get in a automotive, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that sooner or later, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Business, which is exterior of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?

Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like residing in a fucking warehouse. Positively not like a heat starting to California. However truly that’s after I began calling myself Cix. So, it’s not my delivery title. My delivery title is totally different. I feel lots of people, after they make big life choices, they generally wish to change themselves and who they had been and all the things. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] identification.

However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in know-how, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that now we have up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app known as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was once you press your pal’s title and it might do a push notification and mentioned, “yo”. And that raised thousands and thousands of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”

Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.

Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I need be a part of that as a result of…

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.

Preston Lewis: I like it was like Metropolis of Business. I might simply think about what you had been like envisioning was similar to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to point out up at a warehouse is hilarious.

Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s known as Metropolis of Business, it’s the Industrial District. So undoubtedly not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that means.

Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the highway journey, and leaving all your mates behind and shifting to the Metropolis of Business. However, inform our viewers how you bought all for VR. Uh, why’d you get all for it? What first drew you to it?

Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco had been IT jobs. So, I used to be mainly fixing shit for folks; whether or not it was firms or excessive web value folks. I mounted one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.

I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He in all probability doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude organising his fucking Wi-Fi, however , sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.

Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?

Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very totally different than lots of tech folks in San Francisco. A number of tech folks in San Francisco had been engaged on cell functions, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They had been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} aspect, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.

So I had that distinctive perspective. I acquired into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I acquired entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I acquired the DK2 and I used to be attempting it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, nevertheless it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.

I attempted a number of the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be shifting my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually acquired into. However then I acquired entry to the Vive Pre, , the dev package earlier than the VIVE got here out. I acquired the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a Area Pirate Coach, and I used to be taking part in it in the lounge.

So after I moved to San Francisco, I used to be residing with fifty folks on this co-living, sort of hippie-ish factor the place like folks would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of residing in San Francisco. They might prepare dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking folks after I got here to San Francisco.

Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was truly a spot

Cix Liv: Positively very humble beginnings after I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed Area Pirate Coach. And I keep in mind a second the place I used to be taking pictures out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in the direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my whole life. I like to inform people who video video games raised me greater than my mother and father did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna admire me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.

However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in the direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is considering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did one in every of these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.

That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, ? And it was just like the convergence of all the things that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your individual new identification, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.

That good connection of who I used to be. And that’s what acquired me into the house.

Ryan DeLuca: I feel all of us have that second, proper in VR, after all everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I truly really feel like I used to be falling.”

And like, once you actually [00:07:00] notice that you just truly really feel such as you’re there. And I feel it makes whole sense that video video games at all times have been a controller or keypad the place you’re considering that you’re truly in that world and pretending that you just’re that character.

You’re clearly totally faraway from it on a flat display. And it’s the dream that we at all times wished. We at all times pretended we had been that factor after which swiftly VR , now you’re in there, such as you mentioned. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re probably not certain the place you’re at in actual house, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.

Preston Lewis: Area Pirate coach was wonderful for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless suppose they’ve a number of the greatest graphics and mechanics in there.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unbelievable. I feel the primary sport that may get the crown for the primary health sport in VR, I might say might be Audio Defend.

Audio Defend was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely liked. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case at first of digital actuality.

You’re sporting this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] lively motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, ?

Ryan DeLuca: Individuals are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, when you solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the best way, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And now we have the identical story, like, we heard him say that.

After which now after all he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.

Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s acquired the forearms and all the things’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, ?

Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.

Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning firms within the XR house. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us somewhat bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you realized from that?

Cix Liv: , I used to be tremendous all for VR, after which there was this co-working house in San Francisco known as Add, which it was an important place for folks to come back collectively.

I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had lots of optimistic experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the staff. The man who authorised me to be a part of this co-living house was a man named Oz. Ouncesran all of the blended actuality stuff on the location.

And after I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display room and he was doing blended actuality the place he was placing folks within the sport and displaying everyone exterior of VR what it was wish to be in VR. And after I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many largest basic issues that we had in our house, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? If you happen to see somebody in a headset and so they’re sitting down and so they’re similar to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? ? Um…

Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty % of the time, that was true.

Cix Liv: To your VR. I might say that was in all probability true. Let’s be trustworthy. However , after we moved to love full physique monitoring, when you had been to take a look at somebody taking part in Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?

You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this particular person tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then once you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed folks the context of what was occurring, it went from dorky to chill.

And I’m a powerful believer that know-how shifts occur once you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, when you take a look at the evolution of electrical vehicles, Elon Musk actually known as his line “horny”. Proper? As a result of, electrical vehicles as much as that had been like sensible vehicles and stuff like that, the place everyone thought electrical vehicles had been fucking dorky. Proper?

And so one of many large issues that I at all times take a look at on this house is, how will we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it essentially the most dorky shit on this planet? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was in a position to talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And in addition enable folks a window into VR, so you would see what the particular person was doing in actual time.

And so, Ounceswas doing this. I used to be like, “that is wonderful.” [00:11:00] After which how will we create a product out of this? And in order that turned the large query. Among the people who I used to dwell with on this fifty particular person co-op had moved into their very own condo. Their names had been AJ and Pierre.

So that they had been my two mates. I like went to them and I mainly co-oped their front room into a giant blended actuality inexperienced display. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply acquired obsessive about it. I like to think about it sort of like, , as youngsters you’ll file your self in a cassette participant and fake you had been radio jockeys or one thing?

I really feel like we had been sort of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display after which AJ went in there with a brilliant saiyan hat on, and there was this sport the place you would have mini weapons. It was known as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had a brilliant saiyan factor.

It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra straight and easy methods to communicate to buyers and no matter. And we acquired into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly nicely proper now. I feel they only raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what persons are doing contained in the headset. And when you see it even on a flat display, it could actually even actually be troublesome. We battle with that lots of Black Field. Like how do you present folks? We nonetheless do, how do you present folks what you’re doing?

And we create some totally different sort of inexperienced display sort of environments, nevertheless it’s simply so troublesome and such a giant drawback that Liv with fixing, which remains to be an issue and folks nonetheless battle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has carried out to, to assist with that.

Cix Liv: I want they might make like a one click on blended actuality associate with a digital camera firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…

Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out ultimately.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually admire you doing all through your profession to this point has been taking this platform strategy to constructing your tasks and merchandise. And yeah, the entire business has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I in all probability enterprise to guess that Liv is possibly the primary piece of software program used for blended actuality movies. And I’d in all probability say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies had been in all probability made with Liv software program as nicely.

Black Field VR, after we first used your software program, we noticed folks lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an area” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, actually big due to you and your staff for doing that, as a result of I feel it’s been superior for the business.

Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.

We had been working with somebody who’s a hearth spinner, her title was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some folks say “viral” after they have like one million views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout all the things. There was one video on Fb that hit 200 million by itself. That stage of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We had been simply creating movies and it was normally simply me, or simply some folks I do know, and I undoubtedly amp it up, however, , males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.

So I had a pal named Swan and she or he went in there and she or he was similar to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even considering an entire lot about it, we had been similar to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off somewhat bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I wakened and I regarded down my telephone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is occurring?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Recreation Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and in all places.

They’d taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, and so they had similar to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] shopper occasion of VR. Earlier than then we had been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll at all times do not forget that second. It was undoubtedly a mix of a bunch of issues. And , the most important studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the subsequent firms after, which is necessary for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to folks why VR was attention-grabbing. As a result of anytime that we had blended actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However once you had added physicality and folks had been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it might, it might carry out like 100 occasions higher.

The way in which that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re sort of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so it’s a must to be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, , the nuances of your face, it’s a must to use physique language.

And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like once you watch a sport, you’re not taking a look at their face, you’re taking a look at their physique, proper? And so the most important studying from Liv that acquired me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit in regards to the content material if folks weren’t lively, they only didn’t care. They had been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. , I don’t care.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s such a great level. Yeah. I imply, simply the best way you place it, the physicality. And other people like to observe folks doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this good mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I feel all of us had been somewhat bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply in all places. After which that’s after we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like skilled [00:17:00] mates asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like sport with the lightsabers”, ? And it’s like everyone knew about it.

Cix Liv: Yeah.

Preston Lewis: I feel Beat Saber owes you some royalties.

Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them rather a lot with advertising within the early days. I feel that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with only some songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it attention-grabbing, after which there was a really massive modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand folks. And that modding group made it, so that they mainly took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter tune you wished in there. And I feel realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to take care of its relevance.

After which the ultimate piece of that was that it turned the flagship for the Quest. I feel these had been the three large, like, moments that you would say that linked to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be trustworthy. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it turned the biggest VR discord on this planet of lots of of 1000’s of individuals.

They really needed to begin kicking folks out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Have been creating mods with like totally different swords and songs and no matter. And that acquired across the copyright problem the place most builders needed to license each single tune, which will get extremely costly. So they’d this entire neighborhood primarily making infinite content material.

After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so nicely to the Quest and, it didn’t have a number of the points that a number of the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port lots of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.

So there have been lots of builders who created actually wonderful experiences who had a extremely arduous time porting it right down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] large issues that actually pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty % gadget penetration of all the VR market. It was on over fifty % of all headsets on this planet, which was…

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.

Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was the most effective half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many alternative songs and maps, like limitless quantity, proper? And you would discover any songs that you just preferred and all kinds of loopy stuff.

And naturally folks would fee the most effective ones. You’d be taught new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply realized about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by way of that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, , as a result of I used to be at all times planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, , and so they even made the 360 modes and stuff.

However, , it sort of leads into the subsequent factor is, among the best components about Beat Saber being the flagship sport, that turned like actually the primary mainstream sport that launched folks to VR, was the factor we at all times hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber sport. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I liked it. After which I spotted I’m exercising.” Like, it might have been another VR sport that wasn’t actually an lively sport that turned the primary large one, however the truth that the primary large one had such an train cardio element to it, was additionally actually good for displaying health as a robust means to make use of VR.

So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent large factor, your subsequent firm.

Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to go away Liv for numerous causes. One of many causes was, is the staff mainly turned European based mostly and, I had a tough time with the concept of like, shifting to the Czech Republic.

, I hadn’t began an organization considering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some choices to make sure that, like, my departure can be okay for the corporate, and AJ turned the CEO, which was, , my roommate means again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more instantly.

In hindsight, I in all probability ought to have taken somewhat little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 200 miles an hour to a different 200 miles an hour, sort of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working somewhat bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as changing into a giant factor, and I used to be looking for a technique to work with him. And I’ll say this, we had been looking for a technique to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of all the things to love an Nth diploma.

Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart fee trackers which can be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to people who persons are fucking exercising.” I used to be attempting to determine a technique to work with him. He didn’t wish to co-found it with me.

He’s in all probability somewhat mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t wish to be a co-founder with me and he was so targeted on efficacy of all the things. And for me, having constructed a shopper firm earlier than, proving in any respect that persons are doing one thing with the least friction attainable is the way you construct a shopper firm, proper?

So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in the direction of a headset that’s not tethered. I feel health is gonna be one in every of, if not the most important use case. Individuals would chortle at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, folks thought we had been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was attempting to show to people who VR is health and folks would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart fee is excessive.” , like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart fee is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re frightened of what’s occurring. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was attempting to show to people who it was a factor.

I didn’t must be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, , how will we create a shopper product out of this? I began considering, okay nicely, let’s attempt to resolve this in a means that’s the least friction attainable.

I’m quick forwarding somewhat bit right here.

So, one other particular person that actually believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the best way. I keep in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I mentioned, “hey, VR Health is gonna be a giant factor.” They virtually fucking laughed me out of the room. They had been like, “what are you speaking about?”

And I feel that is primarily as a result of the truth that the best way Fb determines product worth is predicated off present metrics that they’ll go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is occurring, we must always try this too.” They’ve a really troublesome time with foresight, and I feel culturally that’s the largest drawback with Fb, is that they solely function on present knowledge and so they don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.

And so, I had that have the place they virtually like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his title was Dylan.

I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t must persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many largest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to folks and so they’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”

So Dylan, I didn’t must persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we acquired into Increase, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I feel Adam Draper preferred me, and he, , like, if I’m gonna be actual, I feel that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a wager on you.” , a kind of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I mentioned, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Increase now, now we have somewhat bit of cash.”

So, we wished to create the least friction technique to become involved on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this large modding neighborhood and it sort of skirted round a few of these totally different platform points that we’d have. Like, might we truly combine into Beat Saber formally? Most likely not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it turned extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] mainly what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord desirous to train.

And in order that neighborhood that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so attention-grabbing, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health house. It was avid gamers, lots of them, tremendous unhealthy that had been exercising accidentally.

And it was virtually like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to really be match.” These had been the fellows that you just’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa sort. That was our major demographic, proper? Was youngsters who felt apathetic to even the concept of exercising.

And what it was, was a extremely good Computer virus that made folks have the arrogance that they really might begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] neighborhood in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can truly train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely nicely. So then we created a Steam based mostly tracker that mainly, would take your motion knowledge and estimate very rudimentary, , initially into what energy you had been burning. After which it advanced right into a Quest app that you just needed to aspect load. And we acquired somewhat bit extra fancy over time the place we had been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart fee based mostly off knowledge that we had on coronary heart fee. However, the objective was mainly to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was sort of the underlying objective of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely nicely. I feel we turned the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.

Preston Lewis: So one query I wish to ask [00:27:00] is, simply feels like you’re very linked to customers by way of these tasks and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I feel is actually necessary for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, , folks strategy it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, now we have a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”

Seems like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the alternative. You after all have the intestine feeling, however feels like you may have actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So possibly only a fast little temporary hit on that, for our viewers. What would you suggest as persons are constructing the product so far as figuring out which path to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?

Cix Liv: It’s a must to have a suggestions loop along with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you would argue just isn’t a great factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single unfavourable assessment, I might attain out to that particular person and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a unfavourable assessment?”

They usually’d be like, “nicely, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t suppose it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the people who didn’t like our product to seek out out why they didn’t like our product, as a substitute of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy folks don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I assume the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? Once you begin an organization, when you don’t wish to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, trustworthy to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s a great day. You guys know this, like, when you wanna be a founder, you may have to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, somewhat little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared an entire lot about VR. And I gave this large impassionate speech on why I consider digital actuality is gonna be the long run.

And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I finished, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you mentioned VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a whole class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s sort of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, lots of occasions buyers, they at all times speak about their future considering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However once you actually discuss to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or large or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you mentioned, with like large firms. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s virtually all large firms. Like, they need knowledge that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the attention-grabbing factor about being laughed in your face is half the time try to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the subsequent large factor. And it’s at all times unimaginable on the time, with out wanting again on reflection to know, which path it truly is gonna go.

Cix Liv: I feel the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is with the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?

As a result of typically the individuals who you suppose are assholes, are literally supplying you with good suggestions. And typically the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I feel that it’s actually arduous to differentiate the 2 typically, proper? Like, the place somebody is supplying you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s similar to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, ? ?

Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.

Cix Liv: Like on the spot…

Preston Lewis: That’s my child.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody entering into and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “nicely, it’s my child?”

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s incorrect with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at footage, you’re like, “man, that child was sort of [00:31:00] ugly.”

Preston Lewis: That particular person was proper. That particular person was proper.

Ryan DeLuca: I assume, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, after we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply liked it a lot, after which after we first began getting suggestions, folks had been saying so many unfavourable issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re incorrect” and like all this stuff. However then, you sleep on it and you concentrate on, okay, we have to make these modifications, and it’s lots of arduous work to make modifications, however you then return and also you make these modifications.

You then look again at your child, on the time, and notice, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s at all times the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and at all times take a look at what you’re at present doing and say it was not practically pretty much as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.

Cix Liv: I feel listening to your customers is totally foundational, as a result of when you discuss to your mates, they’re at all times gonna offer you a optimistic spin, or normally or typically you simply have a pal that shits on all the things, proper? And so your mates are normally actually not a great proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is nice. And household is even worse. , household’s both [00:32:00] at all times gonna be unfavourable or at all times gonna be optimistic, relying on in the event that they suppose you’re creating wealth or not. Proper? So that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you may continually be overly optimistic, since you each consider in the identical issues.

So that they’re normally additionally not a great proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality normally simply exists with the people who use your product. And getting them to really talk and let you know is, I feel essentially the most priceless type of suggestions when you’re constructing a shopper firm. Attending to the people who like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”

Preston Lewis: Somewhat comply with as much as that’s, do you may have any small suggestions so far as the way you go about intelligently amassing that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, organising a Discord? Or do you may have particular issues that you just do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with amassing the suggestions?

Cix Liv: [00:33:00] If you happen to talk with an individual, like, straight, it’s sort of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by way of 4Chan and speaking to somebody by way of their face. Like face-to-face, proper?

when you’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on all the things. It’s virtually like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which after they discuss to you, they’re gonna be like, “nicely, I feel you must, , enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I feel it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss once you’re talking to their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Often the customers that you just’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?

And also you’re normally getting not lots of the suggestions of the people who simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t wish to let you know what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?

So for these, you’re gonna must, like, discover it anecdotally by way of like Fb posts or dangerous evaluations, and this is the reason I might at all times chase the dangerous assessment folks. If you happen to’re constructing that shopper product to know what’s churning folks from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, ?

So I, I feel that getting these three views and possibly bucketing folks in these three issues, is an effective technique to iterate in your product.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot good things to share with you all. So be a part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR mission and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the subsequent episode.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t overlook to e-mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You too can be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, maintain creating and dreaming up the subsequent large factor that may revolutionize the world of health.